Is Joe a Christian?
A post at Atheist Revolution inspired me to post this.
I have a friend, Joe, who is a self-proclaimed Christian. I have known him for over 10 years and, previous to just a few years ago, I had no clue that he was a Christian. We had conversations in the past specifically about spirituality and our thoughts on the afterlife and he never even mentioned Jesus Christ.
When Joe began going to a local Methodist church it peaked my curiosity so I asked him about his beliefs. He was very vague about it until I really pressed him about specifics of what he believes.
Here are his specific beliefs:
God?
Joe doesn't believe in the God of the old testament. He believes there is 'something else' but does not believe in any specific God.
Jesus?
Joe does not believe Jesus was the son of (a) God. He does not believe he was born of a virgin. He does not believe he rose from the dead. He does not even necessarily believe that Jesus actually existed, this after I pointed out the lack of evidence for an historical Jesus.
So my questions are as follows:
In your opinion, Is Joe A Christian?
If you believe he is not, why?
What do you believe motivates Joe to wish to be identified as a Christian?
If you believe he is a Christian, then please offer support for that belief.
Please let me know your religious affiliation, if any, when you reply.
I am sincerely interested in hearing the opinions of as many as possible, including religious folk, so please let me know what you think.
Tagged as:
christianity
religion
9 Comments:
Well I think he's just as much of a christian as many people are today. A lot of people that go to church don't actually believe in all the stuff that it entails. However, if the question is "do his beliefs reflect christianity" in the official sense, of course not. If he were back in the old days, the church would definitely burn him for thinking this.
As for motivation for being called a christian, it might have something to do with fitting into society. There isn't going to be a church for each person's specific beliefs so they just go to a church which may not reflect their beliefs on the whole, but they still get to take part in a group of people who shares his love for believing things that there is no evidence for.
Joe is probably a lonely chat looking for some solace from the religious folks.
My gut feeling tells me that once he tires of his new-found toy, he will dump it, for what religion or creed, I don't know.
I don't know if Joe is a Christian.
It doesn't matter either way whether he is or not though.
But I have to sit on this thought for a little bit. Then I will try to expand a little further.
This is a very interesting post, I could have been Joe, I would not talk about my beliefs, and I would never talk about Jesus Christ. I thought of myself as a Christian because of my up bringing. Did I believe all the stuff in the Bible, ya, maybe, I don't know, I never read it. I guess I wanted God but I didn't want to be like "those" Christians that everyone can't stand. So I just tried to live a good life, be a good person.
Like Joe, one day I decided to start going to church, I thought that I would be checking Churches out for years until I found the right one. How do I know that it is the right one, I know because unlike before, I read the Bible, if the teaching at the church is different from the Bible, it is a bad church. I still have not formed real friendships a church, I don't even think that church is the right place for many Christians.
I don't see now why anyone would call themselves a Christian if they didn't believe the Bible. It is not a walk in the park. People hate Christians, even Christians hate Christians many times. Christians are held up to higher standards, yet it is some of the biggest losers, proudly call themselves Christians. They know that they are sinners, and can't even come close to anything good without Jesus.
Why would Joe want to be a Christian if he didn't even think that Jesus is the Son of God? I don't know, I can't see an outside benefit to it. Maybe Joe only has faith the size of a mustard seed. Maybe Joe would like to believe that there is more then just this life. Maybe if he only believes that there is a God, he should learn about the only one that claims to be the one and only true God.
I can't speak for Joe, I can't speak for others that fellow the teachings of Jesus but choose to not call themselves Christian. I am coming to a better understanding of this. You have asked me why can't I just give up the "god-speak" ? Because God changed my heart, I was once ashamed of Jesus. I read the the Bible now, I understand that if I am ashamed of Jesus, he is in turn ashamed of me. I want to be a better person in Gods eyes. I might be trying to make up for past sins (that is not Christian teaching) My sins are forgiven I don't need to make them right, Jesus did that for me. Jesus did that for everyone. Does Joe believe that, I don't know, but I do.
I guess my real question here is don't you have to believe at least some tenants of a religion if you are going to claim the title? If Joe is considered a Christian, then I guess I am Muslim - even though I completely dismiss all their religious doctrines.
I have discussed this with Joe and he, of course, weaves and waffles around my questions. I personally believe that he does it out of convenience. Let's face it, it is convenient to be a Christian in America and things are made purposely inconvenient for those who don't believe.
If I were not a person of strong convictions, I would just cave into the pressure to 'just believe' purely to make my life easier.
"Convenient to be a Christian in America and things are made purposely inconvenient for those who don't believe."
Could you explain this, because I have found it to be just the opposite.
I would like to hear from you on how it is inconvenient to be a Christian in this country.
Now, to answer your question, here are just a few examples. Atheists are one of the only groups, along with homosexuals, that it is not only legal to discriminate against, but encouraged.
The Boy Scouts of America require that all scouts, even cub scouts, vow that they believe in a theistic God. Buddhist are also not wanted.
The Salvation Army and Good Will Industries both will fire employees who are openly atheist (or gay for that matter).
George (Sr) Bush is quoted as saying that "...Atheists can not be patriots and aren't American. This is one nation under God."
This is an American president, the man who is supposed to be upholding the constitution telling 10% of the citizens that they aren't 'real' Americans.
Now tell me how it is inconvenient for you to practice your religion. Has someone blocked the doors of your church? Tried to tax your tithing? Has your child been refused admission into a group because they are Christian? Is the government not giving your 'faith based initiative' enough of my tax money? I would love to hear how hard things are for you poor Christians
A Christian is basically someone who believes [ have faith in, entrusts one's spiritual well being, put trust in] in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and believes in His death and ressurection. A Christian is a person who believes that they have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and has trusted Jesus Christ to be the atoning person for their sins. My view is that if Joe has not trusted Jesus and has not believed that Jesus is God and has not believed that he can only go to God through Jesus he is not a Christian. Jesus said He is the truth, the way, the life and the only way to the Father.
* DISCLAIMER* YOu asked for an opinion so dont get angry at me for giving it to you.
Thanks Tishy
That is exactly the kind of response I wanted. Someone who knows the rules and is willing to say you must do this, this and this to be a Christian. I have been telling Joe that I don't think that he qualifies according to the doctrine, but wanted to get feedback from current Christians 'in the know'. Thanks again for your response.
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